Build A Brand with Rosie Parsons

Build A Personal Brand Without Burning Out With Kelly Swingler

January 01, 2023 Rosie Parsons Season 1 Episode 5
Build A Brand with Rosie Parsons
Build A Personal Brand Without Burning Out With Kelly Swingler
Show Notes Transcript

Don’t live 2023 stress-free. You need stress in your life and business. Instead, work on stressing less. Kelly Swingler’s mission is to banish burnout, and in this episode, she explains how you can start making your burnout melt away so you can comfortably show up in your business. You’ll learn about how to reduce burnout from taking over your business and personal brand.

(06:33) “If it was all completely stress-free, we'd all just be sat doing nothing all day. We would have no motivation, no drive, no passion. So I don't want us to be talking about stress-free, but I do want us to be talking about stress-less.” 

3 ways to start banishing burnout (tune in for more tips):

  1. 3 things you need to stress less: Understand your core, set boundaries, and take time out
  2. Don’t be afraid to say no. If you don’t set boundaries for yourself, you will be consumed by everything else. 
  3. When you’re starting a new project (eg: a podcast, an Instagram account, a course) don’t focus on getting it done with all the bells and whistles. You don’t want to burn out before you gain momentum. Focus on putting out a minimum viable product, and refine things as you go. 


Connect with Kelly Swingler: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram

Core Led Podcast

Mind the Gap book by Kelly Swingler

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Closing date: 31 January 2023

Connect with Rosie on socials!

And if you're a woman in business who loves colour find out more about personal branding shoots on Rosie's photography website! 💕

Build A Personal Brand Without Burning Out With Kelly Swingler

Rosie Parsons  0:00  
Today on the show, we have the lovely coach speaker and author Kelly Swingler. who specialises in core led leadership and burnout. Kelly has a really strong visual brand. And I'm constantly in awe of how she manages to show up consistently on socials and for her newsletter without burning out. So let's welcome her to the show to find out how she does it. Well, thanks very much for joining us today. Kelly, it's lovely to have you with us. I wondered if you could please introduce yourself and what you do.

Kelly Swingler  0:30  
Yeah. Hi, my name is Kelly Swingler. I am a coach, speaker and author and I am on a mission to banish burnout. And hopefully help people to reduce their stress levels before we get to the point of burnout. 

Rosie Parsons  0:44  
That sounds great to me. What would you define as burnout, then what's that?

Kelly Swingler  0:48  
Burn out for me is, and I do get very frustrated with this one. I think lots of people are talking about burnout as it just being kind of tiredness or needing a little bit of a break. But I think if we look at the true definition of it, and certainly with my own experience, it is chronic stress. So it is long periods of prolonged stress. And again, you know, if we even if you Google chronic stress, you'll find millions of results. But it really is stressed to the point that it can cause serious, serious health issues.

Rosie Parsons  1:20  
Yeah, I definitely have experienced that. Like I remember getting to a stage where I was so stressed, I couldn't even speak I was worried I was having a stroke. I was like enough to call my mum, like take me to the hospital. But as it turned out, it wasn't the stroke. It was stress. So eventually, I did have to get to like beta blockers or whatever it was from the doctor. And but yes, stress is like crazy, isn't it? What's made you really interested in this particular area?

Unknown Speaker  1:46  
I think for me, I burnt out really badly in 2013, like really, really badly. Lots and lots of hospital admissions, the physical impact of stress had got me to the point where I ended up having two operations in 48 hours after seven months of the first symptoms kind of coming at us. But yet at the first big physical symptoms will actually be 10 years in January, since these first physical symptoms started to take hold. And I've actually got a big campaign week.

Rosie Parsons  2:15  
So would you mind sharing what went wrong from having stress and what what did you end up needing operations for?

Unknown Speaker  2:21  
So the physical illnesses that had developed, one was Crohn's, and one was endometriosis. So the endometriosis, I had an ablation for which then put me immediately into early menopause at 32. And I have continued to have you know, I have to be really careful about diet and exercise and energy, really, because because of both of those. And at the time I had, it wasn't until after I'd had these operations that I spoke to both of the consultants and they both in spoke to me about stress levels and burnout. That was when I started to do a lot of really deep inner work, but I was working as an HR director and I'd also reached out to the CIPD to say like what are you doing to help HR professionals, got no luck from them whatsoever. Like they couldn't have cared less. I think then when I left the organisation to start up my own consultancy, it wasn't until I left that I discovered at three of the previous HR directors had all become seriously ill in that organisation and my replacement. Yeah, my replacement, although nobody will say whether it was linked, but my replacement actually died in her sleep six months after being in that role whilst away on a on a lead development on a like a leadership development residential. And so I had gone back to the CIPD again, so that there's five HR professionals like four of us have become seriously ill What are you doing? And there was nothing and I think that was when...

Rosie Parsons  3:51  
What is the CIPD?

Unknown Speaker  3:54  
So the CIPD is the accrediting body really, it's a professional, accredited, professional accrediting body for HR professionals, Chartered Institute of Professional Development, who just didn't care. And I think at that point, like it became my mission to ensure that no other HR professional went through burnout. But I also then I then burnt out again for a second time in 2015. And I think that was really because I had not allowed myself any of the time or space to fully recover from my first burnout I'd gone straight into how can I help everybody else mode? And it was that second one really, that really was to become seriously ill with the first one I like the second one pretty much almost killed me like I was to the point I just wanted to end everything didn't want to be here anymore. And I think that's become Yeah, that's just become my my focus. But I think there was a huge part of me for a number of years that still didn't want to let go of the HR stuff. But I think over the last couple of years it's Like, I don't know, it's, it sounds a bit weird, really. But like burnout just feels like it's my calling, you know, I see the numbers rise. And I know that we can prevent it. And I think because I know it's preventable. That's where my kind of mission has come from. Right? Like, we've got to be doing something to stop this happening. Yeah. 

Rosie Parsons  5:19  
So when he says preventable, like, what signs should we be looking out for ourselves to see that we're sort of pushing ourselves too much, and that we're not coping? Before we get to burnout?

Kelly Swingler  5:28  
Yeah, well, I think he's exactly right. If you get to the point of feeling that you are not coping, or if you get to the point of feeling overwhelmed, I think that's the point that you need to be stopping. Because if we can, you know, I've got this kind of thing where lots of people and I've said, it makes a lovely ring to it. From a marketing perspective, I suppose. I've already seen some kind of posts and stuff talking about, you know, let's all have a stress free 2023. All right, really. We also, I think what I want to kind of get also people to realise is I don't want anybody living a stress free life. And the reason that I say that is because actually, we need stress to keep us motivated, right? We need stress to help us be driven, we need stress to help us achieve our goals. We need stress to get us across the finish line, we need stress for drive and motivation and passion and, and all of those and we're not, we're probably not calling it stress. But actually, that's what we need, right? We need a certain amount of stress to get us out of bed in the morning, right? You need a certain amount of stress to get the kids to school in the morning, right? That's all a certain amount of stress.

Rosie Parsons  6:30  
Yep certainly do!

Kelly Swingler  6:32  
Right. But if it was all completely stress free, we'd all just be sat doing nothing all day, like we would have no motivation, we'd have no drive, we'd have no passion. So I don't want that - I don't want us to be talking about stress free. But I do want us to be talking about stress less. And I think when we look at sleep is a really big one. But let's look at our sleep. Let's look at all of the self care stuff that we see repeatedly over and over again. But for me, it really is fundamentally three things that we need to do to keep those stress levels low. And that is really understanding who we are at what I call our core. So who are we at our core setting boundaries and taking time out. And if we don't do that, those stress levels continue to rise. And then we end up at the point of burnout. And burnout really is that feeling of I've just got to keep pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing. Because it's almost like if I stop, the whole world around me is going to crash. And we can Yeah, we can we can stop it getting to the severity of that point. I mean, I've had I've had another I had another message last night, and I get messages regularly. But I had a message last night from somebody that I met earlier this year. We've had a few conversations, we've been at a few events together. I had a message from her last night like she has been rushed into A and E like we again we did with a critical conduct like she could I mean, she could maybe not have been here this week, because she's been pushing and I've got the message from her like I really like I've been listening to what everything that you've been saying, but I just didn't know how to do it for myself. And now I critically ill in hospital. You know, I had messages last week, some woman's in hospital with a stroke, because of burnout, some woman has been, you know, collapsed in the middle of a road because of burnout. And all of them have contacted me to let you know, I keep watching your stuff. But I never thought it would happen to me. And the Sunday hours are there.

Rosie Parsons  8:27  
I guess it's hard, isn't it? Because you think you're saying I'll take time out? Oh, it's like, well, if I do that, then all those other really important things won't get done. So how can I take time out for myself? But that's probably what everyone's thinking. I certainly am. 

Kelly Swingler  8:41  
Absolutely! But I think, you know, fundamentally, right? What is the most important thing, right? The most important thing is that we are healthy and well. And if it means that we have to cancel a client, you know, if you if you have to cancel a client and say actually, I can't I can't do photos tomorrow, of course, they're going to be disappointed. But it's not the end of the world. And I think if you roll modelled it to say, I've been really pushing for the last six months, I'm exhausted, I don't think I can do you the best possible shoot tomorrow or next week or whatever, because I'm just too exhausted. Do you know what if that were me, I'd understand because I want the best possible shoot. And if you're only operating at 40%, I'm probably not going to get the outcome that I want from it. And I think we all have to recognise that we need to become our own priorities.

Rosie Parsons  9:23  
Yeah, definitely. And I suppose that that feeds into also just taking on the kind of work that you really want to do as well, isn't it and work that you're really going to enjoy? Yeah, and not like if you I get emails about doing all sorts of different things, and you kind of think, Oh, well, I could do it, but it's like I wouldn't enjoy it necessarily. So I suppose it's saying no to things as well.

Kelly Swingler  9:46  
Yeah. And that's where the boundaries coming. You know, the boundaries aren't just about saying no, but I again, I think I talk about boundaries as a like an energy protection. Right. How can I protect my time and my energy? How can I do this? After that is working for me. I think initially when I start talking to people about boundaries, they're like, well, that means I've got to say no. And I hate saying no to people. And I'm not. And that's part of the problem, right? We've got to get to the point of being able to say no or not now, or that's not a priority for me, or however it is that we need to say it. But we have to recognise that we need to become our own priorities.

Rosie Parsons  10:22  
Yeah, no, that's great. And just going on to your brand is lovely. I mean, I love it. So you've worked with Kayleigh Lloyd, who's kind of like, redone your brand. It is looking beautiful. And can you walk me through what what your brand was like before you met Kayleigh?

Kelly Swingler  10:38  
I think, what was it like before I met Kayleigh, you know I hardly think I can remember! I think I had, like, so developed my brand. Just before I met Kaylee, I really I'd left my consultancy. So that consultancy that I set up in 2014. I left that and we, you know, we were kind of building that brand for I don't know how long I was in it six or seven years. And that had had a number of different iterations. And we wanted to make it a bit more, I suppose to reflect the type of work that we were doing and the stuff that we were doing. And when I made the decision to leave that and then start my own coaching practice, which is the Kelly's wingless stuff that I'm doing now. I was a bit kind of like, I don't know what I want it to be. And I tried to get it so far away from the previous brand that I'd set up that I wasn't really sure how many things I was I needed completely different colours. And I need completely different, there's got to feel that I had this kind of like, I needed to keep it separate. So I think before I started working with Kelly, it was just a little bit dull. If I'm honest, it was, you know, something that I thought I need to do something a little bit different. When onto one of those kind of free logo designers. You know, I'll just, you know, just have it as my name and that will be fine. Yeah, pick some colours that I like, and everything will work. And it did to a certain extent, but it wasn't, you know, it wasn't really reflective of me or my personality, or the kind of energy that to anything that I do really. So yeah, dull  probably!

Rosie Parsons  12:05  
Because your brand now is like one of the most powerful ones I've seen. It's just, you know, so cohesive, it really speaks to who you are. And then like, yeah, it's just fantastic. And I love it. And why did you think like, before you invested in it, why do you think it'd be worth investing in a graphic designer? Because obviously, it's yeah, you can do it yourself? Why did you think Nope, that I'm gonna go all in?

Kelly Swingler  12:28  
I think you just get to a point, don't you where, you know, if you want something that reflects who you are, there comes a point where you just need a professional to help you do it. And I think it was, I think it was the other way around. Because I think actually, I think you'd started following me on LinkedIn. And then I think when we've connected or something, but I think you would connected with me on LinkedIn. And then I think you'd put a post out about some of the stuff that Kaylee had done for you. And I remember thinking, Yeah, that's amazing. So I then I kind of do it the other way round. So I think I contacted Kaylee and then off the back of that, and what the brand was gonna look like, obviously, then I'd got in contact with you to say right pictures, and then it all kind of stuff started to build from there. So yeah, and I know, you know, lots of people that either No, and even some clients of mine, and then gone on to do the same thing and work with both of you as well. So

Rosie Parsons  13:18  
it's working, right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And, and it's, it is really good to sort of get your brand colours, like you don't have to have the whole brand finished. But it is really good to have sort of Kayleigh or whoever you're working with to, to have those brand colours fixed. So that would then when you come and have your photos done, we know what colour we're going for. And then it's easy when I can then drop those over to Kaylee or whoever, they can drop them straight into the new designs. And it does work amazingly. Yeah. So what were the core elements of your brand that you wanted to convey?

Kelly Swingler  13:49  
I think initially, I mean, again, I mean, KB is brilliant, really, when it comes to the questioning of what it was that she wants you to be able to pull out of it. But I think for me, it was the fact that it needed to be something different. It needed to be something bright and it needs to be something that was quite bold, because that that is my personality and that is the way that I work with people. And you know I'm not a pastels kind of person. I don't you know, I'm not really kind of soft edges or any of that, you know, I am you know, being as loud see big impact and, and really, I think that was what it was that I wanted it to convey something that was bold, something that was bright, something that was a bit different and and that's what I've got.

Rosie Parsons  14:32  
Yeah, absolutely. It's fantastic. And so I noticed like I'm constantly in awe of how you managed to get like you're on social media all the time you send out your newsletters, you're doing your podcasts, like how do you manage to do all of that and not burn out yourself?

Kelly Swingler  14:48  
I bulk a lot of my stuff. So again, I'm I'm very conscious that I have to so what I suppose what I didn't say at the beginning the The second potentially both burnouts, actually. But I also live with bipolar. And so I suppose mental health conditions to kind of physical health conditions, my energy can be really, really peak and really, really low. And I think I tried for a number of years to do what everybody else was telling me, right, which was just go slow and steady. And you know, just kind of balance, I'm not a slow and steady or a balanced type person, I am, I am, nothing and I am on off, I'm kind of 1000 miles an hour or stopped. And so really identifying that in myself, I recognise that when I have got high energy, that's a day or a couple of days or a week, even where I can be recording videos, I can be creating my content, I can be doing the stuff that I need to be doing on Canva. So I've got it all created, so that on the days where may not be I don't want to be in front of the camera, I have no inspiration at all to put something out on social media, or my energy is just like, oh, like if you know, even writing stuff, and not being able to, you know, produce a cohesive sentence. For example, I make sure that I've got it all. I mean, for next year, I've got a spreadsheet, I don't usually use spreadsheets, because spreadsheets usually annoy me. But I've got like over 500 kind of headings on a spreadsheet, oh, and also, but all of the like all of the ways that I can use them. So with all of these titles, are they blogs, articles, videos, tweets, Tik Tok, videos, LinkedIn posts, what are they for, so that I can just go through all of those, and I have started to record some of them in batch. But also, then if something does come up, and there is something that I want to talk about last minute, I can just feed that in. Yeah, and just make sure that everything is there, I have a brilliant VA, that helps me with all of my emails, so I write them all. And she sheduled them for me. And that's good. So I think just keeping on top of that, you know, I'm aware, but we need to be consistent in order to continue to build our brands continue to, to build our businesses. But again, I think fundamentally for me, because I am genuinely on this mission to banish burnout completely. And people need to be seeing it regularly. And and that's that's kind of what keeps what keeps me going and keeps me driven. Really.

Rosie Parsons  17:21  
Yeah, that's great. So for other people who sort of we all know that we need to get on social media more often and, and stuff. So would you say, would your top tips for sort of doing that be to batch content when you're feeling like it? Yeah,

Kelly Swingler  17:34  
absolutely. Because I think you just bring a different energy. I can. I can tell, particularly with the people that I know. But also you can I think you can just see the posts on social media where somebody's like, oh, I need to post something today. And it's like the most like an engaging post or an inspiring post. Right? Okay. Yeah. Cuz you need to be visible. I don't think there's a different energy around it. I think it's something that you want to do something that you want to get across. I do just think there is that boldness and that brightness and that confidence that comes with it. Whereas if it feels like something that you know, I've just got to do it, because somebody has told me I've got to be posting daily. It's random stuff, sometimes it can feel a little bit desperate. It just think it's a very different energy. Yeah. So batshit batshit. Back, then, if you want to shedule it as well.

Rosie Parsons  18:24  
Yeah, that's good point. And in one of your posters looking through, and I think you've covered in one of your podcasts as well, you talk about impostor syndrome, and feeling that in certain points of your career. You talked to me about that, and sort of what triggered it?

Kelly Swingler  18:38  
Yeah, I was thinking I have thought about this. And I think about it quite a lot. There's always posts out there about imposter syndrome out there. But I think for me, I didn't I know, I didn't feel like an imposter until I got the seat at the top table. I think that was the kind of first time that I really recognised it, and started to experience it. And I think then, did that lead to burnout? Or did I start to feel that because I was already getting to the point of burnout, I think that will continue to be an unanswered question. But I think more and more over the years, what I've realised is that I think impostor syndrome comes up, and he's very present in us, when we cannot, like there isn't an example of somebody else doing what we're doing. Like, if there's no representation of it, I think that's where we can start to get to the point of feeling like an imposter. You know, I was the only woman at the level that I was at, I was the only one with young children. I was the only one as young as I was, I was the only one not living in London, you know, there were all of these things that really was kind of separating me and trying to find that common ground, particularly in the toxic environment that I was working on was really, really difficult. And I think at that point, there was also part of me that really just began to realise that I needed to be my own role. You know, I needed to be my own role model. And if If I was then going to be the first person to do this that would then encourage somebody else to do it. I think that's that's where I've continued to kind of go with it. That's not to say that I have I haven't experienced a lack of confidence since I started my first business back in 2014. But I think the lack of confidence is very different to that feeling of imposter syndrome. And I do think the imposter syndrome comes up when we there's just no, there's no representation, right? There's nobody. You know, from another photographer perspective, right. There isn't a Rosie Parsons out there, there isn't a Kelly swinger there isn't a Kaylee Lloyd, there isn't a whoever for me to say, you know, what, if they can do it, I can, too. And I think it is that kind of feeling of, it's that feeling of loneliness, like, can I really do this? Because I don't see anybody else like me, out there doing it. And that's where I see the most common patterns of imposter syndrome.

Rosie Parsons  20:55  
So how did you get through that?

Kelly Swingler  20:58  
I burnt out, which is definitely not the recommended way for anybody to go through it. But yeah, I think it is, as I said, I don't think I've had impostor syndrome necessarily since then. But I have had moments of doubt and big blips in kind of self belief and self confidence. And I think you just have to realise that, like, Why you doing what you do for me, I'm not saying it has to be for everybody. But for me, it is a bigger purpose, right? I want to banish burnout and stop anybody else experiencing what I have been through. And if I'm in a moment of doubt, or feeling like I'm not good enough, or who am I to be doing this, I can't be helping the people or making the difference that I really want to make. And I think if we cannot get ourselves through that confidence, I think we have to go to like, why am I doing what I do in the in the first place. And it may be to put, you know, to put food on the table, it may be to pay the bills, it may be to set an example for my kids or to help my friends or to make a difference in the world. Like it doesn't have to be this huge, like life changing world changing massive purpose. And by the same token, putting food on the table. And keeping a roof over your head is a really massive purpose, right? It's whatever it is, whatever we kind of look at it. And so yeah, I think we've just got to I I'd look at why do where is it in you? What's causing it to come up? And go back to that question, right? Who am I? Who am I? Who am I at my core? I think if we can answer that you'll find the answers that will keep you moving and get you moving through that feeling of being an imposter.

Rosie Parsons  22:41  
It's great. So you do a lot of speaking engagements as well. Speaking engagements talk in front of a crowd terrifies me, I've only done it once. It was it was okay. But it was like very nerve wracking. Like, did you start off being really good at talking in front of people and feeling confident? Or what? How did you get into doing that? And how did you find it?

Kelly Swingler  23:00  
I think he just came really, as part of the training that I started to do through through my career, I think I had, I mean, when I was really young, like under the age of 10. I'm not gonna serve necessarily loved being on the stage. But I you know, I had quite a lot of lead roles in school plays and could always remember my lines, and you know, and all of that kind of stuff. But there was a situation I think it was my very was it wasn't my last year of primary school, maybe kind of couply I don't know if it was my last year of primary school or not. But I've been given this kind of lead narration role for this kind of final school assembly for a teacher that was that one of the teachers that was leaving, and there was this huge dedication to her. And so I've been given this lead narration role. And a girl that was in my class, her mom had been up to the school to say that Kelly can't possibly handle this role on her own because she's going to forget everything. And, you know, and she really needs to split this narration with my daughter. And this is what this means. And this mom was like Governor of the school and they certainly other so this lead duration roll then became a kind of jewel duration roll, right? But I hadn't realised until probably like 2015 I think I was in like a therapy session. It's weird how stuff sits with us. But from that point on, all the way through secondary school, like if you asked me to speak up in front of the class, like I had situations, I'm like, 15, or 16, literally hiding under the table. Like can't do it. I was barely because I've run out of the classroom in tears. But there was something I think when I got when I started in the world of corporate again, because it wasn't about me. I can train or teach anything from the front of a room. And lots of people look at that as public speaking and I never really did, right. I'm just talking to people about what I know. And I think that's the bit that's really stuck with me. If I have to stick to a really strict script. Then I struggle because I get worried about have I said that or whatever. So a lot of my speaking, I can shave actually I Doing two workshops tomorrow at an HR conference. That's my notes for tomorrow. And as long as I allow things that I'm done, Wow, that's great. And that's just how I've, I've been able to kind of develop it and adapt it. You know, I have a start point, I have a middle and I have an end. And I'm because I'm a huge introvert, like huge introvert, but honestly put me on a stage in front of 10s of 1000s of people. And I'm in my element. I absolutely love it.

Rosie Parsons  25:24  
Oh, wow, that's really interesting. So you don't come like off? Do you feel come off feeling really tired or anything or you're just really energised as you're being on the stage,

Kelly Swingler  25:32  
I can't I come off initially really energised. And as soon as I have come off, I can then do kind of, you know, if people want to talk to me quickly afterwards, then I can do the conversations on your side of the stage, or I can do answers at the back of the room or, or any of that sort of stuff that I need. Literally, as soon as like them walked out of there. Kind of like don't talk to me, like I don't talk to anybody on the train or in the car. I need like a day to recover. So yeah. But whilst I'm there yet, I'm in my element. So again, it's not about me, it's about the information that I'm giving to the audience and how the value that I can add to them.

Rosie Parsons  26:10  
Yeah. So the first that's a good way of looking at it for people who are feeling a bit nervous that maybe they sort of know that they need to get into more public speaking roles, to further their career, but they've nervous about it. So I guess, like you were saying to look at it is that the kind of what you can impart to the people listening rather than it being all about you?

Kelly Swingler  26:30  
Yeah, because I think that's what a lot of us do. But what if I forget what I'm going to say? What if I fall on over on stage? What if? What if, what if I forget my words, what if I miss it? I mean, I don't do presentations? But you know, what if I miss a slide on my presentation, and what if I do this? And what if I do this? And I like it's not it's not about you? And actually, nobody knows what you're going to say anyway. Right? Nobody else has got your script. Nobody else knows what you're supposed to be saying or how you're supposed to be saying it. So it doesn't matter if you miss a line. It doesn't matter if you put things out of order, as long as you're giving the value and imparting what it is that you're there for. I think that's that's what you make for me. Anyway, that's what makes a really great talk.

Rosie Parsons  27:10  
Yeah. Oh, that's great. So you've got your own podcast as well, the core lead women podcast I have. Can you tell us a bit about what do you cover on there? Yeah, so

Kelly Swingler  27:17  
I have a second one that launching in January also. But I think the coolest women while it was really for me again, with a lot of the women that I was speaking to about burnout, really helping them to understand what what this I suppose call lead life could look like. So again, for me call it women, three things, know deeply who they are at the core, they set and maintain their boundaries, they take time out for themselves. And so with all of the guests that I speak to, some of them are just so low, they just mean rabbiting on for kind of half an hour. But I've also, you know, interviewed some incredible women to really talk talk, you know, talk through their stories and their experience and their journey. But it really is all about that focus, really understanding who we are at our core, and how we can bring more of that into the world.

Rosie Parsons  28:06  
Okay, and what are you doing in this January one.

Kelly Swingler  28:09  
The second one that we'll be launching in January is called frazzled. And of course, and so that's all about burnout. Right? How do we stop? frazzled? How do we stop ourselves reaching burnout? What can we do to reduce our stress levels? So yes, I'm introducing a second one that will run alongside call lead women. But yeah, I just felt it was important to kind of have more of a conversation about burnout. And that will really kind of lead on from this campaign that I'm doing from the ninth to the 12th of January.

Rosie Parsons  28:39  
So what was the campaign about is that about, obviously get burnt out. But are you what are you focusing on specifically?

Kelly Swingler  28:46  
So I've got, I've just got, I've got loads of loads of interviews. So I've to be doing a couple of lives. But throughout from the ninth to the 12th of January, I think I've got the 13, maybe 14 people booked in for that week, all people that have experienced burnout, again, to talk through their story, like what were the signs? What did they learn from it? How did they feel about it? What do they wish they'd known beforehand? And what would they say to anybody who is close to experiencing it? As I said, I think I don't think I know it will be 10 years on that date that I will have started to experience the physical symptoms, and I just see the numbers of burnout still rising on a on a daily basis. And I think we need to understand the reality of what it can do for do to us, and also do for us.

Rosie Parsons  29:32  
So with your podcasts, like how helpful has having a podcast been for your business?

Kelly Swingler  29:37  
I think very, I think I mean, even I got a message from somebody last week, like I've listened to all of your episodes, and I'm like, Oh, that's really lovely. I think it helps. It helps a lot more people but i It's another way of getting your brand out there. Right. And I think if people can hear you and see you, you build trust, you build credibility, you can help people you really do build an audience. A lot of people that listened to it regularly and have you know, have subscribed to it are people that have been listening from the very first episode that did just before last Christmas. So I think if you've literally got people that are listening to you every single week, for a year, some of them have come on to become clients. I'm sure some of them I will never know. And some of them I will never ever meet. But yeah, I think there's trust isn't there, there's a likability factor, you're clearly helping people if they are prepared to sit and listen to you for half an hour or an hour on a weekly basis. And then drop you a note to say, I've just listened to this episode, or I've just listened to this episode. And this was for all this really resonated. And I think I think there's magic in that. And it's, it's so different to, I know, a YouTube video or or just reading a LinkedIn post. You're, you're in people's ears on a weekly basis. And I think, yeah, that can make a massive difference.

Rosie Parsons  30:52  
Yeah. So I know a lot of people think about starting a podcast and would like to, but it can feel very overwhelming is a lot to it, isn't there? And you need a lot of equipment. And it seems Yeah, overwhelming. What would be your tips? For people thinking of starting a podcast for their business? Where should they start?

Kelly Swingler  31:11  
I think if you want to do it, just do it. I mean, again, I had podcasts I was even when I with my HR consultancy, I had one called HR coffee break. And then I had one called Future Proof. And I was interviewing a lot of leaders for that. I think for the HR coffee break, I was literally just recording into the voice notes on my iPhone, right, and then posted them onto onto the podcast. And I literally said in the episodes, right, this is kind of unedited, uncut, as raw as it possibly comes. Like, we have 1000s of subscribers. And I've done similarly with some of some of the cool lead women ones, you know, like I've basically just said, Whatever, whatever is there is whatever is there. Yeah, I haven't edited I have, you know, I keep thinking for the second one, maybe for this frazzle, that starting, maybe I do need to get a Podcast Producer, it needs to be more professional, and it needs to be this and it needs to be that but I think people have kind of got used to my style anyway. So I think if you want to do one, like literally record it on your notes, upload the file, get yourself a cover image and just start. And if you then want the expensive equipment, and you do want a better quality video or you want music intros or you want you know, incredible editing or whatever, I think all of that can come at a later date. But if you're allowing all of that stuff to put you off, don't right, explain that it's raw and unedited. And yeah, keep explaining that it's raw and unedited and use that as part of your brand. And, you know, part part of the story behind it

Rosie Parsons  32:42  
for Lynn. And then I guess my final question is like, Have you got any like resources or like, where should people start with burnout and that kind of thing. Have you got Yeah, where should people go?

Kelly Swingler  32:53  
I have got resources. I've got lots of resources. Yes. If you head over to There is a section on the menu called freebies think I've got five or six different types of things on there that you can start to look at. Obviously podcasts I talk a lot about burnout in the core led women podcast anyway and obviously frazzled that will be coming. Lots of stuff on LinkedIn, TikTok. I've been getting onto some little videos on there again, purely unedited, just me talking into my phone, nothing, nothing amazing. No transitions, no anything. Just, you know, me talking into my phone. See a tick tock Instagram. I'm most active still on LinkedIn. I've got lots and lots of articles on there about I suppose a lot of what we've what we've spoken about today. And then yeah, blog on the website. So most of the stuff is on the on the website. And obviously my book in mind the gap, which is my book that came out in July. So it's a story of burnout breakthrough and beyond. Again, I've had some of the messages that I've had from that, like I didn't realise how close I was to burnout until I read it like Thank you. This has been a lifesaver. So yeah, if you think you're there or there's somebody that you're worried about, give them the Book and and see if you can kind of get them to come to the realisation that something needs to change. 

Rosie Parsons  34:07  
Yeah. Awesome. Thanks very much for joining us. It's been fantastic. Thanks so much to Kelly for spending time with us today. Kelly has generously donated three incredible prizes to the show to share with you all. One online programme worth £2500, a one hour coaching session with her worth £575. And finally one copy of her book Mind the Gap a story of burnout breakout and beyond. To be in with a chance of winning any of those, what you need to do is to follow the podcast, leave a rating and share the podcast on your social media. When you've done that, email a screenshot of your share to me at with the subject line Burnout Competition by 31st of January 2023. Do check out the show notes for all the links and info you'll need from the show.

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